Hi Erbie - please start a thread to tell us your story. It sounds like you have been through a tough time.
Frazzled UBM
JoinedPosts by Frazzled UBM
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Ongoing frustration with wife
by Flipping El ini've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
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Ongoing frustration with wife
by Flipping El ini've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
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Frazzled UBM
This sounds pretty tough Fliping El. Have you read Captives of a Concept? That explains the layers of defence against reality Witnesses build up - essentially there are two: the self-imposed; and the WBTS-imposed; and both are very hard to break through. I think finding a way to address the 'where can we go?' question may be a good start. Get her to understand that there are options and life beyond the organisation. The other thing to do is concentrate on the constant feelings of inadequacy that Witnesses have. She probably feels you are the cause of those feelings for her - your lack of 'spirituality' according to her definition is making her feel bad about herself. The trick is to get her to understand that it is the organisation that is making her feel inadequate because nothing she does will ever be enough. Get her to understand that that is the way they want her to feel because that is the way they motivate Witnesses to work harder in the Minsitry. Also when you observe bad behaviour at the KH - particularly directed at her and you, talk to her about it so she can start to see that the community is not the paradise of 'Christian Love' they make themselves out to be - that they are in fact a bunch of petty-minded judgemental hypocrites. If you have any worldly acquaintances - expose her to them so she can see they are not the corrupt evil greedy people that the organisation portrays them as. It is through her experiences you can best trigger thought-changing cognitive dissonance. Abstract debates about doctrine are less effective. Good luck, Fraz
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Frazzled UBM
Gary - yes we are the only ones to do this so far but there are more UBMs here - nonjwspouse and neverajw for two. We UBMs are indeed a small minotiry on JWN. So please other UBMs complete the template.
It is interesting that while there are some parallels in our experiences, there are also significant differences. This probably reflects our different upbringings and attitudes to religion and perhaps also the dynamic in the relationship.
I hope your approach in relation to your kids works - I was not prepared to take the risk of a compromise approach.
Cheers Fraz
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I Waited Until My Wedding Night To Lose My Virginity And I Wish I Hadn't...
by Divergent ini found this article interesting & just wanted to share.
after going through my teenage years trying to be the perfect jw, i realized that trying to live up to the standards imposed on me have been for worse & not for better.
i was feeling miserable, repressed, unfulfilled, with a great lack of self confidence & self esteem.
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Frazzled UBM
The patriatchy that runs the organisation absolutely wants to control female sexuality. Not only the preoccupation with virginity but also the prohibition on masturbation (that does much more harm long term to the sisters than the brothers). My sister-in-law committed suicide rather than return to her newly married husband because I think - reading between the lines - she had an experience similar to that described in the OP on her wedding night and then ran away and then the elders, bless them, told her if she did not return to her husband she would be disfellowshipped. And I fear my wife will never experience the big O because she refuses to contemplate masturbation and during love making (including oral) when she seems to be getting close you can almost feel her stop herself. Oh the damage this cult has wrought!
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Suggestion: Don't Accept Everyone's Opinion Here
by minimus ineveryone has an opinion on things.
oftentimes, we ask for help or want the view of the board in a matter.
but just remember, the comments are simply personal views.
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Frazzled UBM
It is that old saying: "Opinions are like @ssholes - everyone has one."
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"It's the intent that counts and not the result."
by donny in"it's the intent that counts not the result.".
i have been out of the jw organization for some 22 years now and i sometimes get a reminding jolt out the hoops that some will jump through to make their religion make sense to them.
the first line in this post is what a jw on the street here in salinas told me on saturday when trying to justify the society's history of false prophecies.
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Frazzled UBM
This would make a good description of US Foreign Policy
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Adios Amigos!!!
by Gustv Cintrn inthis online community is truly addicting.
i'm at this point super busy with my career, family and jw stuff (yes, in that order), and yet still i keep coming back, posting stuff.... wasting time really with my silly little positives in an swarming angry ocean of negatives here.. i'll be lurking from time to time, but definitely it's time to focus on what's really important and productive in my life.. may all of us find our correct paths and be happy in the end.. vayan con dios!!!.
gc.
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Frazzled UBM
GC - maybe if you hung around your inverted reality may correct itself such that you no longer see lies as The Truth and supporting the views of an abusive and manipulative organisation as positive and opposition to the same as negative. But maybe it is the risk that that might happen that is driving you away. Good luck Frazzled
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Interview with an Unbelieving Mate (UBM): Frazzled
by Frazzled UBM inin honour of jgnat i have completed her template:.
is your wife still an active witness?
no thankfuly - she has only been to the memorail, a convention and the kh once this year and has done none of that for at least 6 months.
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Frazzled UBM
In honour of jgnat I have completed her template:
Is your wife still an active Witness? No thankfuly - she has only been to the Memorail, a Convention and the KH once this year and has done none of that for at least 6 months
Would you stay with your wife whether or not they ever left? Yes - I told her when she was in that I would stay with her no matter what and I meant it.
Did you have any background with the Witnesses before you met your wife? No, I just knew them as a slightly odd, slightly scary cult
How does your family feel about your relationship with a JW? Sympathetic
Do you have any status or influence at the Kingdom Hall? Absolutely none
When did you start investigating the Jehovah’s Witnesses seriously? When my wife got reinstated in early 2012 and started acting differently
Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books? Internet
How difficult or painful was the process of understanding the JW experience and their relationship with “Unbelievers”? Quite painful as I took the scare-mongering on JWN about relationships between JWs amd UBMs at face value
Was it a big dramatic revelation or a gradual realization? Dramatic revelation followed by a gradual realization that it wasn't as bad as I had been led to believe
Did you convince your wife to leave the Witnesses? What has that been like? I didn't convince her to leave - she stopped going of her own volition albeit she knew of my concerns. The longer she ahs been away the more she has returned to the person I knew and fell in love with. It has been great to get her back although there is still work to be done on her WBTS induced emotional dysfunction and phobias.
How were your family relations affected by your involvement with your wife? The biggest problem was trust. She hid things from me and neglected to tell me things to the point I became very suspicious. Arguing doctrine created a lot of stress and conflict.
Do you and your wife have extended friendships you both enjoy? Not yet - this is on the To Do list.
How long have you been together? Married for 4 years but together (of sorts) for 10 years.
Is there anything you look forward to doing with your JW if they ever leave? Getting her to walk into a church or cathedral as a tourist to appreciate the beauty of it would be a big step
What are you most proud of achieving in your relationship? Tough question - after 4 years of marriage and all the turmoil of 2012 and 2013 we have a strong marriage albeit with room for improvement in the communication department
Is there anything you appreciate about the Witness lifestyle? No - it is delusional and oppressive
Do you have any religious affiliation now? What do you believe? I was and remain an Atheist
How do you now feel about religion in general? I now see religion in more negative terms than before my exposure to t e WBTS but recognise that it fulfils a need for the majority of humanity and that banning it or condeming it is counterproductive. There is no right or wrong in this - all of us - even those who view themselves as very rational - are influenced by emotions, ego, bias, misperception and irrationality and so I don't feel well placed to condemn others for their beliefs. The WBTS on the other hand is a transparently fraudulent and psychologically abusive organisation.
Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s? No - she was very happy to receive her birthday cards and presents this year.
Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs? Yes -with Laika and Kate Wild - both great people who I count as friends
How do you explain the JW experience to outsiders? Do you bother? I use 1984 analogies
Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs? Pity - they are victims
How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door? Invite them in and offer them something to drink and have the argument about doctrine I can't have with my wife - they usually don't stay long - unfortunately with the carts they don't call around any more - or maybe I am marked
Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support) In terms of getting loved ones out - tending to the wounded - I tried storming the barricades but that failed dismally; in terms of exposing the WBTS - storming the barricades
What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in? Unconditional love-bombing and patience and picking up on the reality of the misery of attending the KH and doing field service
Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change? It should be destroyed but won't be and will continue to morph in the interests of survival - I don't know whether they can keep doing this indefintiely - education is their enemy
How has your life been impacted by your involvement with your JW? Yes I had a very stressful 2012 and 2013 and until my wife has counselling she will carry the vestiges of her Witness upbringing and I still have Witness in-laws who view me with suspicion
Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for? No
How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters? Not much thankfully
What do you think of the ex-JW community? Diificult question - I think there is a lot of narrow-mindedness judgementalism on JWN but I am not on other discussion boards on the internet so I am not sure whether that is a function of ex-JWs or discussion boards. I think those who have been disfellowshipped are rightly bitter and angry and that can cloud judgement but is entirely understandable and by no means a criticism.
Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time? Not really - if my wife stays away - I don't have that much in common
What are your plans for the future? Take it as it comes
What advice would you give to anyone who is in love with a JW? Be careful and do your research and decide how important this person is to you and how far gone they are - I am not of the 'run as far and as fast as you can' school because everyone is capable of change.
What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself? I would have taken the love-bombing don't argue doctrine approach from the start
Do you have any regrets about your life with your wife? No - as they say - life is too short for regrets
Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books) No
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Words that irritate
by punkofnice ini have words that irritate me and not always without reason.. my latest hate is the word: 'solutions' as used by so many businesses in their title these days.
y'know, 'something innane business solutions' and such balderdash.. i loathe that word now.
arrrrggghhhhhh!
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Frazzled UBM
punkie - I share your annoyance at the bastardization of the language by business jargon and I love your use of language: "Bleedin' bandwagoning wazzocks" is a thing of beauty.
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Union Jack Comes Down In Camp Bastion
by cofty inthe flag has been lowered for the last time in camp bastion in helmand province afghanistan.... the baton has been passed to the afghan army.
let's hope they are ready.. "it is with pride that we announce the end of uk combat operations in helmand, having given afghanistan the best possible chance of a stable future.
our armed forces tremendous sacrifice laid the foundations for a strong afghan security force, set the security context that enabled the first democratic transition of power in the countrys history, and stopped it being a launch pad for terrorist attacks in the uk.
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Frazzled UBM
It is hard not to think that it was a waste of 500+ British lives. The Taliban is poised to regain power. I agree with Simon's comments about nation building.